Hillary Clinton's Interviews with BBC, CBS, and CNN
Mme. Secretary did a slew of interviews along with bilaterals and a working lunch in Rabat, Morocco today.
Interview With Kim Ghattas of BBC
Interview
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Sofitel Hotel
Rabat, Morocco
February 26, 2012
QUESTION:
Madam Secretary, thank you very much for speaking to the BBC. Just over
a year ago, I asked you a question about Libya, and I know that Libya
and Syria are very different, but in essence the question kind of
remains the same. With no sign of rapid tangible action to stop the
violence in Syria, if we wake up tomorrow and President Assad has
leveled Homs to the ground, history will not judge the Obama
Administration very kindly. SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I just disagree with that premise, Kim. I think that if you look
at what’s happening in Syria, and it’s very different from Libya – and
you’re right, a year ago we were cautiously assessing what was possible,
and what became possible, because the opposition controlled territory,
had a united national presence that was quite prepared to not only
engage diplomatically but organize against the Qadhafi regime is not
present yet in Syria. And certainly that is a condition precedent for
anyone who is trying to figure out how to help these defenseless people
against this absolutely relentless assault.
I wish that people
inside Syria were responding as people inside Libya responded. They are
not, at this point, perhaps because of the firepower and the absolute
intent that we’ve seen by the Assad regime to kill whomever. But the
fact is we are moving to do everything possible with the international
community. QUESTION: But if the people inside
Syria can’t get organized, and the rebels don’t have the territory to
organize properly, what is the responsibility of the international
community to make sure that we don’t end up with a large-scale massacre? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, Kim, we still have a very strong opposition to foreign
intervention from inside Syria, from outside Syria. We don’t have the
United States Security Council approval, legitimacy, credibility that
comes with the international community making a decision. We have a very
dangerous set of actors in the region, al-Qaida, Hamas, and those who
are on our terrorist list, to be sure, supporting – claiming to support
the opposition. You have many Syrians more worried about what could come
next. So I don’t want to say that nothing can be done, because I don’t
believe that and I feel like we are moving to the best of everyone’s
ability who is concerned as we are about this.
But I want to make
clear that for anyone watching this horrible massacre that is going on
to ask yourself: Okay. What do you do? If you bring in automatic
weapons, which you can maybe smuggle across the border, okay, what do
they do against tanks and heavy artillery? So there’s such a much more
complex set of factors. But I want to assure you part of the reason for
the Tunis meeting was to see whose side who was on. QUESTION:
At the Tunis meeting, the Saudi foreign minister said it was an
excellent idea to arm the rebels. Others are perhaps already doing that.
Are you discouraging them or encouraging them? SECRETARY CLINTON: We are doing neither. We are only speaking on behalf of the United States. QUESTION: But aren’t you worried that arms flowing into in the country will feed into the conflict? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, but that contradicts the point you were making earlier, and
understandably, because it’s a very difficult set of considerations. I
have no doubt that people are already trying, to the best of their
ability, to get arms into those who are defending themselves. What I
can’t understand is why the Syrian army is doing Assad’s bidding and
taking these actions against defenseless people, staining their honor,
undermining one of the institutional pillars of their country. I don’t
understand that. QUESTION: It’s starting to look
like this is going to be a long conflict. Are you worried about that?
Are you worried about years of conflict in Syria, perhaps something like
a Lebanon scenario with regional pairs and different groupings and
armies splintering? SECRETARY CLINTON: I am
worried about it. I think that there’s every possibility of a civil war.
Outside intervention would not prevent that; it would probably expedite
it. So I think that as you try to play out every possible scenario,
there are a lot of bad ones that we are trying to assess while keeping
our eye on the need to get humanitarian aid in, to try to do everything
we possibly can to support the Syrian opposition, to make it credible,
to have it be both inside the country and outside the country speaking
on behalf of the Syrian people, inclusive, representative. And we’re
trying to help push a democratic transition. It took more than a year in
Yemen, but finally there was a new president inaugurated. People kept
being killed all the time.
So these are very painful situations.
There’s no getting around it. I feel like everyone else watching the
video, and I also have the additional information that comes from all
kinds of intelligence sources, so I know how terrible things are in
parts of Syria. Other parts are totally unaffected. So this is a
difficult but necessary engagement for the world to stay focused on. QUESTION:
In Tunis, you called the Chinese and Russian actions despicable on
Syria. Is that wise? Aren’t you cutting them out of the solution? You
may need them to negotiate a possible exit for President Assad. SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, they’re free to negotiate anytime they want to try to bring this
to an end. The best I can see is their negotiation is only to reinforce
Assad’s existing tendencies and actions. And their actions are very
distressing, because they could be part of the solution.
If you
look at the Security Council resolution that they vetoed, there were no
arms going into Syria under it, no foreign intervention of any kind, no
basis for foreign military action, not even sanctions. What we were
trying to do is to have the international community behind the Arab
League’s leadership, which was to negotiate that kind of handover that
proved successful with Yemen. And that is something that the Russians
wouldn’t go for, so we, of course, would invite, welcome, encourage
Russian and Chinese intervention that could lead to the end of the
bloodshed. QUESTION: But some argue that the
United States and all the Friends of Syria are hiding behind Chinese and
Russian obstructions. Because the reality is no one, as you said, is
really ready to deal with the consequences that any sort of intervention
to halt the violence would actually entail when it comes to Syria. This
is a very complicated country. So in a way, the Russians and the
Chinese are also making it easier for you to step back and see how this
plays out. SECRETARY CLINTON: No. If they had
joined us in the Security Council, I think it would have sent a really
strong message to Assad that he needed to start planning his exit, and
the people around him, who are already hedging their bets, would have
been doing the same. Because they know they’ve got Iran actively
supporting them, Russia selling them arms and diplomatically protecting
them, and China not wanting anybody to interfere with anybody’s internal
affairs. So that gives them a lot of comfort. Those are three
consequential countries, one right on their border, one nearby, and one
that has a lot of influence.
So I think that we have to take the
facts as we find them. I wish I could wave my magic wand and change
them, but that’s not possible. So therefore, we are waiting for the
Russians to play a constructive role, as they have continued to promise
us. Unfortunately, that’s not been forthcoming.
And I would not be
doing my job if I were not looking at the complexity. I mean, I could
come on and I could do an interview with you and I could say, “Oh, we’re
all for them. Let’s go get them.” But what would that mean? Because
clearly I know how complex this is, and anybody who is thinking about it
and having to actually consider what could happen next understands it.
So what I’m trying to do is work through this with likeminded countries
that so we can get to a point where there is sufficient pressure so that
the people around Assad – the business community is still supporting
him, the minorities, which you know so well from Lebanon, don’t know
which way to jump and are scared about what might come after, the
opposition, which doesn’t have any place that can really be a base of
operations. I mean, there’s just so many features of what it takes to
run an effective campaign against such a brutal regime that are still
not in place. QUESTION: I’m going to squeeze in a
last question about Egypt. Regardless of the outcome with the issue of
American NGO workers who are detained and others as well, because there
aren’t only Americans who are facing charges – regardless of the
outcome, it seems to show that the current political establishment,
which is a result of the popular revolution, is just as opposed to the
work of civil society as the government of President Mubarak was. That’s
not a great result for a popular uprising. SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, Kim, I’m not sure what it shows, because there isn’t a government
yet. I mean, that’s one of the problems, is that they’re still in
transition. They finished elections for the parliament. They don’t have
an executive that would have such authority to be able to determine what
is and is not the policy of the new Egyptian Government. So we’re in a
transition. And I think that’s one of the reasons why these difficulties
flare up. QUESTION: Would you trust the judicial system in Egypt? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I think we are working with the highest levels of the existing
Egyptian authorities and we’re hoping to get this resolved. QUESTION: Thank you very much.
Interview With Wyatt Andrews of CBS
Interview
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Sofitel Hotel
Rabat, Morocco
February 26, 2012
QUESTION: Madam Secretary, good morning. SECRETARY CLINTON: Good morning. QUESTION:
Thank you for doing this. Let’s get right to Syria, please. I know and
respect that you think the Friends of Syria Conference on Friday was a
success. But the shelling continues. I don’t think we have any evidence
that humanitarian aid is going in as the conference demanded. So on what
level exactly was the conference a success? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, Wyatt, perhaps I take a longer view than some in looking at the
way that, again, the Arab League has led, which has been one of the most
remarkable developments in the last year that they would take positions
against fellow Arab nations on behalf of the aspirations that we all
hold for the Arab Spring. The fact that so many other countries were
present and all speaking with one voice – this is not to be, I think,
diminished in terms of its importance. It doesn’t mean that we aren’t
deeply distressed by what has continued. QUESTION: But the world is united. I take your point, but what does that do? SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, except that – well -- QUESTION: What does that do? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I think it does several things. Sometimes, overturning brutal
regimes takes time and costs lives. I wish it weren’t so. I really,
really do. I wish that those around Assad would realize that it may not
be tomorrow, may not be next week, but they’re done. I wish the military
that serves that regime would quit staining their own honor and stand
up for the rights of the Syrian people. I wish the businesspeople who
are still sitting on the fence would realize that they’re going to be so
tightly sanctioned that it’s going to be a big price for them to pay
and so on. Because it’s not just one man; it is a regime. And we think
that we’re putting a lot of pressure on that regime, and that there will
be a breaking point. And we think that the regime itself is dishonoring
who they are and what they stand for. They don’t represent the Syrian
people anymore; they represent a family, maybe the Ba’ath Party, a small
group of insiders.
And so we’re – we are pushing this day by day.
But they also have very, very strong friends, if you look at Russia,
China, and Iran, who are in there determined to keep Assad because he
does their bidding, he buys their arms, he sells them oil. This is as
clear a contrast between the values that the world now is embracing and
the past. QUESTION: But on the point of the
pressure and the pressure you’re trying to apply, our correspondent in
Syria yesterday was interviewing some of the people still being shelled
in Homs, and there was a poignant moment in this interview where this
man says, who is under the shelling, says, “Where are you, Friends of
Syria?” SECRETARY CLINTON: Right. QUESTION: He specifically mentions the conflict. He says Baba Amr – that’s the suburb of Homs -- SECRETARY CLINTON: The – right. QUESTION: -- is being shelled as if you did not exist, that – meaning the Friends of Syria Conference. SECRETARY CLINTON: Right. QUESTION: Does he have a point? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Of course he has a point, and I am deeply, deeply distressed for the
people that he represents who are trapped under this artillery
bombardment. But the problem for everyone is you have a ruthless regime
using heavy artillery and tanks that are war weapons of the greatest
impact against defenseless people. So there will be – and I’ve said this
before – there will be those who are going to find ways to arm these
Syrians who are under attack. But even if they are given automatic
weapons against tanks, against heavy artillery, the slaughter will go
on.
And what I’m at – I’m wondering is what about the people in
Damascus, what about the people in Aleppo? Don’t they know that their
fellow Syrian men, women, and children are being slaughtered by their
government? What are they going to do about it? When are they going to
start pulling the props out from under this illegitimate regime? QUESTION: You’re sending a message to them? SECRETARY CLINTON: Yes, I am. QUESTION:
The Administration made a point this week of suggesting that if Assad
does not step down, does not stop the violence, that the U.S. would
consider additional measures.
Talk to me. What are the additional measures? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I’m not going to go into that, Wyatt. I think we did signal that
this kind of wanton violence is just unacceptable. There are countries
that are much closer with a much greater stake in the neighborhood who
are looking at what they might do. Obviously, we are talking with them
to see whether they intend to take action and whether they need any kind
of logistical or other support, but no decisions have been made. QUESTION:
You’re suggesting nonlethal support? Or are you suggesting that the
United States may support the closet backchannel arming of the rebels
that’s going on now? SECRETARY CLINTON: We have
made no decisions to do any of the above. We are in consultations with
others who are watching this as we are watching it, and trying to
determine what more can be done. QUESTION: When I
go back to the plight of the folks being shelled and who are very
plaintive in their requests of the international community to be
stronger, the question is: How long does the killing go on before the
additional measures you’re talking about kick in? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I think, Wyatt, if you take just a moment to imagine all the
terrible conflicts that go on in the world, we have seen in the last 15
years millions of people killed in the Eastern Congo in the most brutal,
terrible, despicable ways. It wasn’t on TV. There were no Skype-ing
from the jungles that were the killing fields. And I could point to many
other places where governments oppress people, where governments are
turning against their own people. And you have to be very clear-eyed
about what is possible and what the consequences of anything you might
wish to do could be.
I am incredibly sympathetic to the calls that
somebody do something. But it is also important to stop and ask what
that is and who’s going to do it and how capable anybody is of doing it.
And I like to get to the second, third, and fourth order questions, and
those are very difficult ones. QUESTION: The
U.S. has repeatedly said that it’s reluctant to support the direct
arming of the dissidents. The U.S. has been reluctant to arm the
dissidents. Why? SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first
of all, we really don’t know who it is that would be armed. We have met
some of the people from the Syrian National Council. They’re not inside
Syria. This is not Libya, where you had a base of operations in
Benghazi, where you had people who were representing the entire
opposition to Libya, who were on the road meeting with me rather
constantly, meeting with others. You could get your arms around what it
is you were being asked to do and with whom. We don’t have any clarity
on that. We -- QUESTION: But what’s the – Madam Secretary, what’s the fear? SECRETARY CLINTON: Well -- QUESTION: On the ground, what is the fear -- SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first -- QUESTION: -- of arming the rebels? SECRETARY CLINTON:
First of all, as I just said, what are we going to arm them with, and
against what? You’re not going to bring tanks over the borders of
Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. That’s not going to happen.
So maybe
at the best, you can smuggle in automatic weapons, maybe some other
weapons that you could get in. To whom, where do you go? You can’t get
into Homs. Where do you go? And to whom are you delivering them? We know
al-Qaida. Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria. Are we
supporting al-Qaida in Syria? Hamas is now supporting the opposition.
Are we supporting Hamas in Syria?
So I think, Wyatt, despite the
great pleas that we hear from those people who are being ruthlessly
assaulted by Assad, you don’t see uprisings across Syria the way you did
in Libya. You don’t see militias forming in places where the Syrian
military is not trying to get to Homs. You don’t see that, Wyatt. So if
you’re a military planner or if you’re a Secretary of State and you’re
trying to figure out, do you have the elements of an opposition that is
actually viable, we don’t see that. We see immense human suffering that
is heartbreaking and a stain on the honor of those security forces who
are doing it. QUESTION: We’re out of time, but thank you. SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you.
Interview With Elise Labott of CNN
Interview
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Sofitel Hotel
Rabat, Morocco
February 26, 2012
QUESTION:
Madam Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. We’re here in North
Africa a year after the Arab Spring. It’s a new region. Most – Islamists
are in power in many of these countries. And when you were speaking in
Tunis yesterday, you kind of suggested that you have concerns that maybe
some of these transitions are faltering and risk being hijacked by
extremists. SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, that is
certainly not my concern. It should be the concern of anyone who is
watching these transitions. Let’s take a step back. On the one hand, the
elections have gone well. People have been empowered and enfranchised.
But democracies don’t equal elections. A lot more must be done to ensure
that people’s rights are protected, women’s rights are protected,
there’s no discrimination of the freedom of religion, freedom of speech,
and all the freedoms that really go with a democracy. So as I’ve said,
we’re going to listen to what these new governments say and we’re going
to watch what they do. QUESTION: Let’s talk about
Egypt, these 16 Americans working for NGOs expected to go to trial
today. You’re having talks with them. Where do they stand? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, Elise, we are having intense talks at the highest levels of the
Egyptian Government because, obviously, we’d like to see this resolved.
Our relationship with Egypt is, I think, very important to both
countries, and we have a lot of work to do together. We want to support
the new Egyptian Government, we want to support the aspirations of the
Egyptian people, and we have to resolve this matter. QUESTION: Are you going to surrender them for trial if you can’t resolve it? SECRETARY CLINTON: I’m not going to go into any of the legal issues. We’re just trying to get it resolved. QUESTION:
But this is a country – I mean, how do you feel about this? Thirty
years, you’ve been supporting the Egyptians, and this is what they do to
the Americans? SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I don’t
want to go making this a dramatic confrontation. It’s a problem. We have
problems with a lot of our friends around the world. We’re trying to
resolve it. QUESTION: Okay. On Syria, you’re
really making an effort to peel away Assad’s inner circle. Are you
hearing from anybody? Is anybody contacting you? SECRETARY CLINTON:
We have a lot of contacts, as do other countries, a lot of sources
within the Syrian Government and the business community and the minority
communities. And our very clear message is the same to all of them. You
cannot continue to support this illegitimate regime, because it’s going
to fall, so be part of an opposition that can try to have a path
forward that will protect the rights of all Syrians. QUESTION:
But what about the message that the Syrian National Council is sending
to those inside Syria? Do you think they’re sending the right message? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I think it’s very difficult to form an opposition when you have
no place to operate out of inside the country you’re trying to change.
In Libya, we had a very effective operation in Benghazi that gave us an
address. We could deal with people. It represented Libyans across the
country. We don’t have that in Syria. And the Syrian National Council is
doing the best it can, but obviously it’s not yet a united opposition. QUESTION:
What are you – how far are you prepared to go to get this aid in? I
mean, the shame tactic, it doesn’t seem to be working. And today – and
Russian state paper Pravda is calling you the despicable one. I
mean, how are you going to get that aid in if they won’t – if President
Asssad won’t do it and the Russians won’t pressure him to do it? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I think that that speaks for itself. I think that the Syrian
people themselves need to start acting on behalf of their fellow
Syrians. Where are the people inside Syria who are going to demand that
men, women, and children cannot be assaulted and left to die, given no
medical care, no food, no water. And look, I think that Russia has a
commercial relationship, ideological relationship with Syria. It’s made
its decision to stand on their side. QUESTION:
Well, are there going to be – are there consequences to the relationship
with Russia if they’re not willing to at least help, use their
influence to provide the aid? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I mean, I think we’ve already seen some very clear disagreements
played out in public between us, but at this point, we’re doing
everything we can to marshal public opinion internationally and work
with neighbors in the region to try to get that humanitarian aid in. QUESTION: Let’s talk about Afghanistan. The Embassy’s in lockdown right now? SECRETARY CLINTON: Yes. QUESTION: And employees not allowed to go anywhere? SECRETARY CLINTON: No. QUESTION:
Okay. Listen, President Obama’s apology has become very controversial. I
mean, obviously Newt Gingrich and others have made this apology part of
the campaign, but other experts in Afghanistan are saying this apology
sends the wrong message, it gives the Taliban the excuse to go against
us, to help use our enemies against us. And also, a lot of these attacks
that are happening against Americans, these horrible attacks, seem to
be in retaliation for something the U.S. is taking responsibility for. SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I find it somewhat troubling that our politics would enflame such
a dangerous situation in Afghanistan. I well remember during the eight
years of President Bush’s administration, when something happened that
was regrettable, unintentional, as this incident was, President Bush was
quick to say, look, we’re sorry about this, this is something that we
obviously did not mean to do. That’s all that President Obama was doing,
and it was the right thing to do, to have our President on record as
saying this was not intentional, we deeply regret it. And now we are
hoping that voices inside Afghanistan will join that of President Karzai
and others in speaking out to try to calm the situation. It’s deeply
regrettable, but now it is out of hand and it needs to stop. QUESTION:
On Iran and the IAEA report, damning evidence that Iran is continuing
to build these underground sites. What do you think is going on at these
sites, and are they playing for time? If you’re going to have these
talks, is it really that they’re playing for time and those talks would
lead to Iran further constituting their program? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, we want to know what’s going on in those sites. And the fact that
they are secret, heavily protected sites seems to suggest something’s
going on the Iranians don’t want the IAEA or the world to know about.
That can only raise suspicions even higher than they already are. We
have said that we would engage with the P-5+1 to meet with the Iranians
if they came to the table prepared to talk about their nuclear program. QUESTION: Do you think talks will happen? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, we’ll – we’re moving toward them. Cathy Ashton has been empowered
to negotiate on our behalf, but these latest actions by the Iranian
Government, not permitting the IAEA inspectors to see what they wanted
to see, are certainly troubling. QUESTION: Your envoy for North Korea, Glyn Davies, had talks in Beijing. SECRETARY CLINTON: Yes. QUESTION: Any glimmers of progress there? SECRETARY CLINTON:
I think modest progress. We’ve always said that we are willing to talk.
This is the first time that, under this new leader, we’ve had this
opportunity, and we’ll follow through. QUESTION:
Did you learn anything – the way they’re negotiating about Kim Jong Un,
is there – do you think there’ll a consistent approach from the North
Koreans? SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, we’ll see,
Elise. We are – yeah, there’s a lot of experience in negotiating with
previous North Korean leaders, and it’s usually a challenging process,
but we have some of our best, most experienced diplomats on the front
lines. QUESTION: You said yesterday that
President Obama will be reelected. It’s not – it raised a lot of
eyebrows. It’s not really the Secretary of State to say anything about
an election, and it seemed to be kind of a campaign statement. SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, remember the context of it. I was asked whether the comments in
the primary campaign, some of which have been quite inflammatory,
represented America. And I represent America, and I know what happens in
campaigns. I’ve been there, done that. And I know that things are said
that are not going to be put into practice or policy. But I did think I
needed to point that out to the audience. And probably, my enthusiasm
for the President got a little out of hand. (Laughter.) QUESTION: Well – no political juices flowing there? SECRETARY CLINTON:
Well, I’m trying to dampen them down. I’ve tried to have them taken out
in a blood transfusion, but occasionally they rear their heads. QUESTION: Does that suggest maybe going back in at some point? SECRETARY CLINTON: No. No. It just suggests that I want what’s best for my country. QUESTION:
Madam Secretary, you have a year left. Last year was a crazy year –
(laughter) – with the Arab Spring and so much other things going on –
Iran, North Korea. What, this year, do you hope you’ll accomplish? And
moving towards thinking about your legacy, where do you hope to have
your priorities? SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I’ll
talk about legacy when I’m done because I don’t like looking back, I
like looking forward, and we have an incredibly active year ahead of us.
We are looking to consolidate a lot of the work we’ve done the prior
three years – in Asia, in Latin America, is Africa, you name it. So
there’s just an enormous agenda ahead of us, but we’ll stay focused on
what keeps America safe, what promotes America’s values and furthers our
interests. And that’s our – those are our three north stars, and we’re
following them. QUESTION: Just to wrap up, I mean, what were the – what are the key things you’d like to see happen by the end of this year? SECRETARY CLINTON: Peace, prosperity, happiness everywhere. (Laughter.) QUESTION: I think we all would. Thank you so much for joining us. SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you.
Here are some beautiful pictures from her very busy day! Thank you for your hard work, Mme. Secretary. Have a safe trip home!
