Interview With Baruani Muhuza of Radio Free Africa
InterviewHillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of StateEmbassy Dar es SalaamDar es Salaam, TanzaniaJune 12, 2011QUESTION: (Inaudible) Madam Clinton, I’d like to take this opportunity, special opportunity, to welcome you and your delegation in Tanzania and yourself in our radio station, Radio Free Africa. We broadcast through East Africa and all over the Great Lakes countries. Let me introduce myself. I’m Baruani Muhuza.
My first question, I’m going to start with about the U.S. trade approach for Africa. Do you see Chinese interest as inherently incompatible with your interest in this continent?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first thank you for giving me this opportunity to be interviewed. I appreciate being on this network.
With respect to your question, we do not see the Chinese commercial and diplomatic interest in Africa as inherently in conflict with U.S. interest. We both have a long history in Africa. We were neither of us colonial powers, so we have a different set of relationships throughout the continent.
But I have raised questions about ensuring that as any company, whether it’s an American company or a Chinese company or an Indian or a Brazilian – any company that does business in Africa I hope adheres to the highest standards of how workers are treated, how the environment is protected, how the benefits from the investments are not just going to the elites in countries but more broadly spread across the population.Because I think it’s important at this stage of African development, with African countries really beginning to show great growth, that it be sustainable, that companies don’t come into Africa, just take natural resources, and leave nothing behind. Let’s leave paychecks behind. Let’s leave small-and medium-sized businesses behind. Let’s live a rising standard of living behind. And that is certainly the objectives that President Obama and I have for our involvement in the continent.
QUESTION: Yeah. I know while you were in Zambia you had put it that you want to work closely with China and you have begun a dialogue with them, a dialogue, of (inaudible) activities in Africa. Do you have the same submission in this continent?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, what we are trying to determine is can we work together, can we cooperate on development programs. I’ll give you an example. We learned that in one country we were building a hospital, and China was building a road, but neither of us knew what the other was doing, so the road did not lead to the hospital. So we think that if we better coordinate and share information what we are doing could perhaps be of more benefit to the people of the countries in which we are working.
And I think there are many ways that there are international standards that should be adopted, for example, in extractive industries, in mining, in agriculture, so that all companies from all countries are held to a high standard that will benefit Africa. We don’t want to see a new form of colonialism in 21st century Africa.
QUESTION: And Madam Secretary, now I’d like to ask you about the issue of climate change, especially for Africa. How does the U.S. help the developed countries, where the days are numbered to the next conference, which will be held in Durban, South Africa?
SECRETARY CLINTON: We’re looking forward to the Durban conference. And one of the reasons we are is that at the last conference in Cancun, Mexico, the international community adopted the establishment of what is called a Green Fund. That will be a fund for developed countries to put resources in to help developing countries deal with climate change. So we want to see the fund fully established by Durban. We want to see it begin working by Durban. So we’re hoping that we’ll see a big step forward at the climate change conference in South Africa at the end of the year.
QUESTION: Madam, last week the Government of Southern Sudan called for end military intervention over and the confrontation (inaudible) forces loyal to its military, the Sudan People’s Liberation Army, SPLA, and the Northern Sudan armed forces in border state of South Kordafan. What is your opinion on that about the whole Sudan’s crisis from Juba, Darfur, and now this Abyei.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first we have to do everything we can to prevent an outbreak of violence and a renewal of the conflict that ravaged Sudan, both North and South, for so many years. The Comprehensive Peace Agreement, signed by both the North and the South in 2005, sets forth a framework that needs to be followed. There are continuing questions and differences between Khartoum and Juba. But I hope that the leaders who are meeting today in Addis Ababa with Prime Minister Males of Ethiopia and former-president Thabo Mbeki, who is the AU envoy, will sit down and begin to talk over those differences.
There does have to be a border set between the North and the South. Abyei’s future has to be decided. Determining how the oil will be handled – there are many remaining questions. But we know that if the president of Sudan, President Bashir, will sit with soon-to-be-president Salva Kiir with people from Africa who care about resolving these conflicts, there’s a way forward, and that is what we are pushing from the United States.
QUESTION: Let me finish. But there is some complaints about rather than acting decisively the African Union, AU, courted to pressures from outside the continent and voted for UN Security Council Resolution Number 1973, which authorized military action in Libya. To you Madam, how did you receive this point compared to your clear message that Qadhafi must go?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first, I think that the African representatives on the Security Council, which are South Africa, Gabon, and Nigeria, made their own decisions. They looked at the facts very carefully. They listened to the people of Libya who were scared that their own leader was going to hunt them down like rats, which is what he had said. They consulted with the Arab League, which took a very strong position asking for – in fact, demanding – United Nations action.
So I think the three African countries made a very careful analysis and decided that we could not stand by and watch Qadhafi’s tanks and airplanes and military personnel destroy and kill so many thousands of people. The opposition has been proving itself worthy. They started off with no military at all. They’re doing much better. They are forming an inclusive governing council. So I think that the decision that Nigeria, Gabon, and South Africa made, based on their own experiences – they brought their own experiences to the Security Council – was the right decision.
Now, we all want this to be resolved peacefully, but in order for it to be resolved peacefully Mr. Qadhafi must agree to a ceasefire and quit his attacks on his own people. I mean, this is like the most elementary expectation of a leader, and unfortunately, he has not agreed to do that. So we will continue with Arab countries and NATO and other countries to protect civilians.
QUESTION: Thank you very much and welcome again in Tanzania.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you very much for your thoughtful questions.
QUESTION: Thank you.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you, sir.
Interview With Babbie Kabae of 102.6 Choice FM (Clouds Radio)
InterviewHillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of StateEmbassy Dar es SalaamDar es Salaam, TanzaniaJune 12, 2011QUESTION: I have been a great admirer of you from a long, long time ago, and it’s good to finally meet you in person.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you so much.
QUESTION: You’re a wife, you’re a mother, you’re the United States Secretary of State, and you have been a lawyer. You’ve just got your whole career mapped out from the time you were young, been an activist. My first question is: How do you manage all of that?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think it’s easier looking back to see how things progressed. But when I was much younger, I really had no idea what I would be doing at this age. I certainly never thought I would be Secretary of State or a senator from New York or married to a President. But I believe so strongly that women need to get good educations and to be prepared for whatever opportunities life might present.
And I’ve been a very fortunate person to be able to do so many interesting jobs and to make a contribution to my country and to the many concerns that I have about women and girls and human rights and peace and security. So it’s been an absolutely wonderful experience. But it is something that is hard to map out, because you have to be prepared to take what opportunities come your way, but you may not always know what those will be.
QUESTION: And the journey ahead until now?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, the journal ahead is equally unclear to me. I will be working, I’m sure, in areas of interest to me, particularly girls and women, which I have talked about for many years and have again the last two days here in Tanzania. But I have no plans. I have no prescription. I want to just work very hard to focus on the many issues that we’re concerned about in the Obama Administration and help the President in any way that I can. But then I will look for some other opportunities to serve.
QUESTION: It’s actually great that you mentioned that, because in 1995, when you gave a speech at the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing you said, if I may quote you, “If there is one message that echoes from this conference, let it be that human rights are women’s rights and women’s rights are human rights, once and for all.” Now ten years and more on, is there a significant change to note, or is the situation getting worse as you see it?
SECRETARY CLINTON: I think that there has been significant progress in many parts of the world. I think in your country, here in Tanzania, laws have been changed. I have met many women ministers and public officials, women leaders in agriculture and healthcare and education. So there certainly has been a marked improvement in the opportunities and rights of women.
Having said that, women are still, in too many places, denied their basic rights or they are caught up as victims and targets of conflict and gender-based violence. So we cannot rest. We have to keep working. And I was very pleased to see the emphasis on gender-based violence that your government is making. We intend to support that strongly.
QUESTION: And speaking on current affairs, you just went through – you opened the AGOA trade agreement in Zambia, and there has been a little bit of farmers and producers crying foul about the U.S.-Africa trade agreements. And how do you see it progressing to help at least the lower caste farmers and producers right now? Is it going to open up more opportunities?
SECRETARY CLINTON: It should, but I think we have to take a very realistic view about what has worked and try to improve it so it can work better. In the 10 years since my husband signed the AGOA trade agreement, we have increased by $4 billion our trade between Africa and the United States, and that doesn’t include oil. Of course, we do buy a lot of oil from --
QUESTION: Yeah. This is now the non-petroleum sector?
SECRETARY CLINTON: This is the non-petroleum sector. So we’ve quadrupled our trade. But I think too many small-and-medium-sized businesses don’t know how to take their products into the international market. So what we have decided to do is to invest $120 million over four years in trade hubs and technical training to help entrepreneurs develop business plans, get access to credit, improve their production facilities. Because there are so many wonderful products here in Africa that don’t get to scale and therefore don’t get into the American market.
But I think one of the most important new initiatives in East Africa is the East African Community. Because, for the first time, countries in East Africa, including Tanzania, are saying lets trade more with each other. Sub-Saharan Africa trades less with other countries in the same region than any other region in the world, so there’s a lot of business that is just being left on the table, so to speak. And so we are encouraging tearing down obstacles, fighting corruption, because corruption is a hidden tax on local businesses throughout Africa, breaking down the barriers between countries, learning how to get into the American market and the European market.
So I think we’ve done well. I’d give us a positive grade, but I think there’s so much more we can do. And that’s what we were talking about in Zambia at the conference.
QUESTION: And this year the world has witnessed many changes, not just big uprising revolutions in most countries, especially North Africa and the Middle East. What has been your response to that?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, on the one hand, it is very exciting to see people who have been left behind – they don’t have the positive years of democracy that Tanzania has, where people can stand up for their rights, they can run for office, they can express themselves freely. And now people across North Africa and the Middle East are starting to claim those basic freedoms.
On the other hand, it’s going to take a while before it sorts itself out. You just don’t go from authoritarian regimes to full-fledged democracies and free-market economies over night. But I have a lot of faith that the people of North Africa and the Middle East are on the right path now. And the United States and other countries will do everything we can to help them.
And actually, I think here in Africa – look at how peaceful democratic and growing Tanzania is. You understand the difficulties, but every day the country kind of puts one foot in front of the other on this very long journey. So I think that there are lessons that these countries in North Africa could learn from their southern neighbors about how to have a democracy, how to accommodate different points of view, how to bring people together to find common ground, something they’re not used to doing.
QUESTION: And maintain peace.
SECRETARY CLINTON: And maintain peace and security and get along with each other. I mean, you are a country that is a united republic. You have many different kinds of people. You have two major religions but then other minor religions. You have languages. You have lots of differences. You are making that a strength, not a reason to fight.
And in Egypt for example, I’m very worried about the attacks on the Christian community, the Coptic Christians. And most people in Egypt, the Islamic population, they don’t approve of that, but a small minority is. So how do they stand up to that small minority?
In Tunisia, women have had more rights than in many places in the Arab world. There’s a small minority of fundamentalists who want to turn the clock back on women’s rights. So how do they stand up to that? So they have some tough issues ahead of them.
QUESTION: Before we close up the interview, a little bit about you now. In 1962 you met the late Martin Luther King. How was that for you?
SECRETARY CLINTON: It was an extraordinary experience, and I’ve been privileged to meet many famous people and a few great people – (laughter) – and there’s a difference.
QUESTION: Yeah. Infamous and famous. (Laughter.)
SECRETARY CLINTON: That’s right. And I was taken to meet and hear Dr. King preach by my church youth group, and I will never forget it. And then we stood in a very long line to shake his hand and just to have that moment to connect with him. And I was just heartbroken when he was killed in 1968.
And I’m proud of my country, because despite the upheavals and the terrible problems that we went through in our own civil rights revolution, from the time of the beginning of our country, through slavery and so much heartache and pain, we now have an African American president. And we have come a long way, but we’re very conscious that we have to keep moving to fulfill Dr. King’s dream. We’ve made progress, but we can’t say we’re yet there at the promised land.
QUESTION: Sure. Last question for sure now. But this one I think is the most important one. After being Madam Secretary of State, what next for you?
SECRETARY CLINTON: I honestly don’t know. I’ll come back in a couple of years and tell you, as I make it up as I go. I really have so many interests and so many great hopes for our world. And my husband, after he left the presidency, has been working with the Clinton Foundation here in Tanzania and elsewhere throughout Africa and making a difference, saving lives, helping people. We both care deeply about that, so I will continue my service in some way, but I don't know how yet.
QUESTION: I wish you all the best of luck.
SECRETARY CLINTON: And I wish you. And I hope you continue to just grow your radio program and all of your listeners.
QUESTION: Thank you very much.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you.
QUESTION: It was a pleasure speaking to you.
SECRETARY CLINTON: It was mine indeed. Thank you.
QUESTION: Thank you very much.
RESIST, INSIST, PERSIST, ENLIST.” - HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON
Monday, June 13, 2011
Hillary Clinton: Wheels up from Tanzania
Well, yes, but not before a press availability with President Jakaya Kilwete, a few photos, including one with the First Lady Salma Kilwete, and a couple of media interviews.
