Interview With George Hook of "The Right Hook" Radio Show
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Dublin, Ireland
October 11, 2009
MR. HOOK: (Inaudible) today said Hillary Rodham Clinton. You may be unaware (inaudible).
SECRETARY CLINTON: Oh, I did not know that I am making history, George.
MR. HOOK: Very much history, Secretary.
SECRETARY CLINTON: (Inaudible.) As the Secretary of State, I have (inaudible) many times, but (inaudible).
MR. HOOK: Secretary, could I ask (inaudible) in particular for foreign affairs.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Right.
MR. HOOK: What do you see as the primary difference between this administration and the previous one?
SECRETARY CLINTON: (Inaudible.) But certainly I think it's fair to say the President Obama and I believe that we need to make more partners and friends in the world. We want to be working with countries like Ireland, as we do on a regular basis, to solve problems and meet common challenges.
And we know that the United States has a great deal to contribute, but we also have a great deal to learn. And we want to have that kind of relationship where other countries (inaudible), you know, their responsibilities, and work for a better future.
And Ireland punches above its weight. I mean, the work that Ireland does around the world in peacekeeping and aid and conflict resolution is a real model, and we want more of that.
MR. HOOK: Secretary Clinton, I am old enough to remember Harry Truman. And on the agenda of every American president has been the Middle East. How do you view the Middle East?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, it's on the agenda of every American president, because it is such a difficult situation. And certainly here in 2009, we have a special responsibility to persuade the Israelis and the Palestinians that they need to seriously negotiate towards (inaudible). Israel (inaudible) that it rightly needs, and with the Palestinian people, their aspirations fulfilled for their own sovereign state, where they take responsibility for charting their own future.
MR. HOOK: We are, of course, in Ireland -- we tend to be a bit parochial about it. We're worried about our own (inaudible), just Ireland. And we are worried that President Obama's public (inaudible) about the environment (inaudible).
What do you say to Irish (inaudible) and the Irish people, who see America as crucial and -- to our future economic success?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I had a long conversation with (inaudible) these economic issues (inaudible), I've been with the foreign minister, (inaudible) earlier today.
I think several things. One, that Ireland has faced some very great economic challenges, with the drop in (inaudible) rates to a negative five percent in the last year. But Ireland has also taken some very courageous and necessary steps to be able to put your own house in order. But it's imperative that the American economy recover, that the American worker is productive, the American (inaudible) begins to feel confident again in spending, for the entire global economy to be lifted up.
So, we are all doing our part. We obviously believe that it's in everyone's interest for American businesses to be investing and creating jobs at home and abroad, in countries like Ireland. We are very much in favor of that. But, at the same time, we cannot permit what happened in the global economic arena to ever happen again. So there has to be some changes in behaviors and actions, and that's what we're really focusing on.
MR. HOOK: Finally, Secretary of State, you are going to Northern Ireland tonight. And, of course, the previous Democrat administration had a strong connection with (inaudible) crucially important to the peace process. (Inaudible.)
Do you think -- what are your views on this administration, and how you can help continue that peace process?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, this is a commitment of the American government that goes back to 1993, but it was also of importance to the prior administration. So it's bipartisan in that regard. And, certainly in this administration, we are very committed to continuing to support the peace process.
The Good Friday agreement, the St. Andrews agreement, we're on the brink of what we hope will be another significant milestone in the (inaudible) power to Northern Ireland, and let the people of the north make their own decisions, and accept the responsibility that comes with that. I feel very deeply that this is the right approach for Northern Ireland to take, and I am going to do everything I can to evidence in the north tonight and tomorrow the continuing commitment of the United States, both our government and our people.
You know, the parties, the communities that come (inaudible), they haven't been (inaudible). And we all need to be supporting them: the Irish government, the British government, the American government. But, most of all, the people themselves (inaudible) demand of their leaders the kind of results that are out there waiting (inaudible).
MR. HOOK: Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, thank you for giving me this interview. More importantly, well done on a history-making visit by a Secretary of State. And you are welcome back here in any position at any time.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you, George. It's a pleasure. I want you to tell our press, George, that I'm making history. I didn't know that.
MR. HOOK: Yes, this is the first ever dedicated visit by a Secretary of State of the United States of America to Ireland. We think Secretary of States have been here before on Presidential business, but never on a dedicated business. And in that regard, yet again, Mrs. Clinton has proved herself to be innovative in what she does.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you, George.
(Applause.)
And then another with John Humphrys of the BBC who, as you see, tried to put her on the spot.
Interview With John Humphrys, BBC RadioWow! She is a model of consistency. Wherever she goes, and whatever they do to try to shake her, she sticks with that two-track plan. Mr. Humphrys, clearly you don't know our Hillary Clinton!
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
En route from Carlton Gardens to Chequers, London, United Kingdom
October 11, 2009
SECRETARY CLINTON: Hello, Mr. Humphrys, this is Hillary Clinton.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Oh, Madame Secretary, hello. Thank you very much for doing this in these slightly unusual circumstances.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I apologize that we couldn't do it in person. My visit is much too short. But I appreciate your being understanding.
MR. HUMPHRYS: On the contrary, it's very good of you. Right. Let's -- I think we are all in a recording mode, are we? Yes, we are. Good.
Secretary of State, President Obama assured Senator McCain that what is happening in Afghanistan cannot be a leisurely process. Is that what it's become, in truth?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think the President has made it clear that he is committed to pursuing our goals in Afghanistan, goals which we share, not only with your government and people, but with many across the world who understand the ongoing threat from extremism and Jihadi violence emanating from that region.
And what the President is engaged in now is a very thorough scrubbing of the implementation plans for achieving our goals. I actually believe that the in-depth discussions we're having, where we are testing our assumptions, where we are looking at how better to integrate our civilian and military components, and our very clear understanding that Pakistan and the larger region must be addressed as well, is leading to some welcome clarity and the kind of commitment that is needed.
Now, I know that sometimes when people in leadership positions, as the President is, you know, ask questions, ask questions of our military, of our allies, of ourselves, people wonder, "Well, what does that mean?" I think what it means is that, you know, we are going to have a very clear, unambiguous commitment to achieving our goals, and for the United States to demonstrate leadership, along with our friends and allies, because we hold to the conviction that this is in our national interest.
MR. HUMPHRYS: But you seem now to be testing your assumptions to the extent that you are changing the strategy. You are now emphasizing the campaign against al-Qaeda in Pakistan, and arguing that the Taliban in Afghanistan don't actually pose a direct threat to the United States. Is that the case?
SECRETARY CLINTON: No, Mr. Humphrys, it isn't. I know that's been some of the press coverage, and I appreciate this opportunity to clarify.
We are not changing our strategy. Our strategy remains to achieve the goal of disrupting, dismantling, and defeating al-Qaeda and its extremist allies, and denying them safe haven, and the capacity to strike us here in London, or New York, or anywhere else.
It is fair to say that we are doing a much more careful analysis of who actually is allied with al-Qaeda. Not everyone who calls himself a Taliban is necessarily a threat to the UK or to the United States. And I think there has been, to some extent, inherited from our prior involvement in Afghanistan, a lack of clarity. Because there well may be a number of people who currently are considered Taliban who are there because, frankly, they get paid to fight, or because they see no alternative.
Similarly, in Iraq, when we began to more carefully parse out who was really with al-Qaeda in Iraq, and who had been coerced or intimidated, we began to make real progress on the ground in developing partnerships that led to a decrease in the violence, and a glide path that we are all on to turning over the security to the people of Iraq.
So, I think that it is important to note that what we are doing is bringing to bear information and evidence that needs to be part of our thinking, as we implement in the most effective manner.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Does this explain why you seem reluctant to give General McChrystal the extra 30,000 or 40,000 troops that he wants in Afghanistan?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I don't think we can characterize the President's approach to that request, because it is one of several factors that he is taking into account: the current political situation, the election outcome, the role civilians must play, and so much else.
But General McChrystal is present through video conference at his command center, and the chairman of the (inaudible), General Petraeus and Admiral Mullen are at the table with us in the situation room, along with, of course, Secretary of Defense Gates.
So, we are putting into context the request for troops, the request for additional civilian assets, the request that we both expect more and see more coming out of all levels of the government of Afghanistan, that we do more to train up and deploy an operational force of Afghans themselves. So these are all the factors that have to go into the analysis that will lead to the President making his decision.
MR. HUMPHRYS: But the longer you leave this decision, the more it looks like a leisurely process, doesn't it?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, but we also don't want to continue doing what we inherited.
At the time of the President's remarks in March, announcing that he would send more troops -- which was a request of the prior commander -- that we would try to better integrate our civilian and our military efforts, and that we would see Afghanistan and Pakistan -- and particularly their border area -- as the real theater that we are focused on here, I think he made clear that we would reassess after the Afghan elections.
Well, the elections have come and gone, but the results are not yet known. So the President has proceeded to do what I think is responsible. When the commanders were changed -- a quite unusual action, as I am sure you are aware -- the President asked General McChrystal to give him his best estimate as part of the review that was going to take place.
So, this is all in the course of what we think is a responsible approach. You know, one should never doubt our commitment of our leadership. We intend to pursue the goal. We will not rest until we do defeat al-Qaeda. But we want to be smart about how we are proceeding. Now, the lives that our young men and women, both American and British, have put at risk and lost, are very much on our minds. And, you know, we intend to get this as right as it's humanly possible.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Given that --
MODERATOR: Mr. Humphrys, this will have to be the last question. Sorry.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Given the sacrifice that there has been, and given the effort that has been put into it, are you and the President proud to be standing alongside Mr. Karzai, as president of Afghanistan?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, Mr. Karzai has been very helpful on many fronts. I think we often overlook the progress that has been made in Afghanistan because of the serious challenges that still exist.
But we are very clear that if this election results in his being re-elected, there must be a new relationship between him and the people of Afghanistan, and between his government and governments like yours and mine, which are supporting the efforts in Afghanistan to stabilize and secure the country.
MR. HUMPHRYS: But you --
SECRETARY CLINTON: So it is a more complex picture than sometimes emerges from snapshot views. But, clearly, we expect more. We are going to be working toward more. And we are anxiously awaiting the final outcome of the election.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Final question, if I may, about Iran. At what stage do you move to the next set of sanctions?
You want what you have described as "crippling sanctions" against Iran if they don't do what is being asked of them in regard to their nuclear program. At what stage do you move to those sanctions? And would they include an embargo on gasoline, on petrol?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, as you know, we have a two-track process. The one track, on diplomatic engagement that we saw in evidence in Geneva with the P5 Plus 1 meeting, has borne some fruit. It was constructive, but not conclusive for Iran to open itself up to inspections of the facility at Qom. And it was also important for them to agree, in principle, to export out their low enriched uranium, and to agree to a next set of meetings.
But we have never stopped working with like-minded nations, most particularly Great Britain, in ensuring that we stand ready to act in a united way if these diplomatic endeavors are not successful. So I can't give you a time line or a date certain, but we are meeting all of the time, and working with others around the world, so that if we conclude at whatever time in the next weeks that this is not proceeding as we believe it should, then we can move to the other track.
MR. HUMPHRYS: All right.
SECRETARY CLINTON: The President has said that we want to see action from Iran by the end of this year, and I think that is a pretty good benchmark.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Can you give us a commitment that America will not sanction military action against Iran?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Oh, we are very clear that our goal is to prevent Iran from becoming a nation with nuclear weapons. We have never put on the table or taken off the table any options. But we have certainly demonstrated that we intend to follow the two tracks that I just outlined to you.
MR. HUMPHRYS: So, military action --
MODERATOR: Thank you, Mr. Humphrys. I think that has to be all for today.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Certainly.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you. Nice to talk with you.
MR. HUMPHRYS: Hillary Clinton, many thanks. Thank you very much, indeed.
