While in Germany, Secretary Clinton followed her signature practice of making herself available to the local media. Here are a few interview transcripts released by the State Department earlier today.
Interview With Marietta Slomka of ZDF Television
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Hotel Adlon
Berlin, Germany
November 9, 2009
QUESTION: Madame Secretary, do you remember where you were on that very special day in Berlin 20 years ago and how you got the news?
SECRETARY CLINTON: I was in Arkansas, and I was just talking to Tom Brokaw, who was one of our major TV anchors in 1989 in the United States, and the word came and I turned on the TV, and my husband and I were just glued, as we say, to the TV. And it was so exciting to see history unfolding before your very eyes. It wasn’t something that happened off-screen that you later heard about and was reconstructed. It was there. And Tom Brokaw famously said, “The war is over, the wall is down.” It was an exciting moment.
And as someone who grew up in the Cold War and had a lot of teachers who cared deeply about what happened and parents who were committed to freedom for people, it was a wonderful moment.
QUESTION: Now that you mention the war is over, the international system has changed. If you look at really for Germany from a foreign policy point of view, what does our – what is the German role on global stage nowadays?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think in the last 20 years Germany has assumed not just a role in Europe but a role in the world. A reunified Germany in a unified Europe is really the heart of Europe. And I think the German leadership that you’ve had over these last 20 years has understood that while the challenges of reunification were difficult and there was a need to continue to work to integrate East and West, that Germany would be called upon to exercise more responsibility outside of its borders. And that’s what I see Chancellor Merkel doing. She came to the United States, delivered a very important speech to our Congress, was very well received. I had breakfast with her this morning.
And of course, we talked about Germany and Europe, but we talked about Afghanistan and Iran and climate change and so many other important global issues.
QUESTION: As you just mentioned, the heart of Europe, your predecessors in the State Department considered Germany as Old Europe. (Laughter.) But that perception has changed, I assume.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Oh, that has more than changed. That was one of the strangest comments. But no, for me personally and for the Obama Administration, I think it was telling that during his campaign President Obama came to Germany, that I am here today because we care deeply about celebrating this historic moment with the German people and people everywhere who are freedom loving. But it is important to look at Europe now and see Germany as one of the real decision makers, not only in a regional way but globally as well. And that’s what I see happening.
QUESTION: You mentioned more responsibilities. Are there hopes and – or even expectations from your side towards Germany and the policies of Germany?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, but of course, that’s up to the German Government and the German people. But I know how significant a role Germany played in the G-20 efforts on recovering from the global recession. Germany has taken a leading role on climate change. We stand shoulder to shoulder in Afghanistan under very difficult circumstances with your soldiers and our soldiers. We see Germany’s very strong position with us vis-à-vis Iran and their nuclear program, and Germany, of course, is very committed to a two-state solution and peace in the Middle East. So on many of the most difficult issues of the day, Germany is playing a very important role.
QUESTION: And on the key issue, Afghanistan, is there expectations about – in terms of more support, more military engagement?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, that is, of course, up to Germany itself. But we believe that during the consultations that the President and I and our Defense Secretary and others have carried out, it’s been a very useful discussion with our German counterparts. And we, of course, would hope for continuing support. We would hope that Germany would be not only a partner but part of the group that would really explain why this is important to the United States, to Germany. I think that we are fighting a common enemy. The United States doesn't go to Afghanistan because we hope for just a better circumstance in the future for that country, although that would be very welcome, but because we think our security is affected and we think the security and the values of our friends and our allies like Germany are also impacted.
QUESTION: Could Germany do more?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, that’s going to be up to Germany. And we – when we are at the point where the President has made a decision, we will, of course, consult with the German Government and see what their reaction is.
QUESTION: Madame Secretary, thank you very much.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you. It’s a pleasure.
QUESTION: And have a nice day in Berlin.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you. It’s always nice to be in Berlin. Thank you.
Interview With Mathias Müller von Blumencron and Dr. Erich Follath of Der Spiegel
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Hotel Adlon
Berlin, Germany
November 9, 2009
QUESTION: So you’re just about to send more troops into Afghanistan. Why? For what? Is it to establish democracy, the western civil society, or is it just to prevent the establishment of new bases of terrorism?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first, President Obama has not made any final decision. He has conducted a very deliberative process which has explored every assumption underlying every action, and I think it has been quite productive. But I think it’s fair to say that in the course of our examination, our goal is to defeat al-Qaida and its extremist allies, and that is a very clear goal. We’re hopeful for the future of the people of Afghanistan to have a better life, to have political, social, economic development.
But we are in Afghanistan because we believe that we cannot permit the return of a safe haven or a staging platform for terrorists. We think that al-Qaida and the other extremists are part of a syndicate of terror, with al-Qaida still being an inspiration, a funder, a trainer, an equipper, director of a lot of what goes on. In the last two months, we have arrested a gentleman who was plotting, it’s alleged, against the subway system in New York who went to an al-Qaida training camp in Pakistan. The porous nature of that border is one that we consider to be very dangerous. The government and military of Pakistan are now moving against some of these extremist allies. But we think that we have to prevent the return of a – I think an extremist state in Afghanistan in order to be able to control this threat.
QUESTION: Our soldiers are dying, almost daily. On the other hand, the Afghan Government, in specifically the last election, were clearly based on fraud. How can we justify towards our people here in the West that we still send troops and have people there dying for a corrupt government?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, but I don’t think they are fighting and sacrificing for the Afghan Government. They’re there, in the case of American troops, for the American people and the American Government. We recognize, however, that our chances of success in this struggle are enhanced by a government in Afghanistan that can be a partner, that can help to train and deploy a bigger and more effective security force. The soldiers who are in the Afghan army are also sacrificing. They are willing to fight. They are often dying alongside our soldiers.
And so the expectations that we have for President Karzai and his new government are very clear and high, that in order to accomplish the goal we set of having a country that is able to stand up and defend itself, there has to be an effort against corruption; more accountability, the rule of law, the kind of basic expectations that a government should produce. It’s very clear that the people of Afghanistan do not want the Taliban back. In every single survey that we’ve ever seen, they reject the extremism that they lived with from the Taliban.
But they also want a government that gives them some security, that doesn’t leave them at the mercy of the Taliban. So we’re going to try to better organize our efforts and try to demand more from the Afghan Government itself.
QUESTION: Shouldn’t you demand a government of unity, including Abdullah Abdullah, after these elections?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think that what we’re interested in is an effective government that can deliver for the people. And we believe that there do have to be a number of people in the government. Who the personalities are is not as big a concern as having competent, effective, honest members of the government.
But we’re not only looking at the government in Kabul. We’re also looking at the government throughout the country. Because very often, it is local governance, as it has historically been in Afghanistan, that delivers services, that provides security. So we think more has to be done with the local governance structures, not just keeping all the attention on Kabul.
QUESTION: Would that mean that America would get much more involved with the local governments and also with the appointments of the local governments? Does it mean you put more pressure on the central government to point the right people in the local areas?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think that a number of us – not just the United States, but a number of NATO members as well as allies in the international forces – agree with what Prime Minister Brown said last week, that there has to be more accountability. I mean, we do see this as in our national security interest, but part of being successful and protecting our interest is having a better partner in Afghanistan.
And we will be making our views known. We will have certain measurements of accountability that we expect. And we don’t think that’s interference. We don’t think that is out of bounds since we are committed to helping the people of Afghanistan themselves be able to withstand the threat from the Taliban. The most common kind of formulation that I and others have heard from the Afghans themselves is we need your help to get us in a position where we can defend ourselves against these threats, and then we need you to go.
Well, that pretty much summarizes what we want to do as well. (Laughter.) So we want to be more effective, but we have no intention of staying or holding territory or occupying. That is not any objective of ours. We want to leave a stable enough situation behind that the Afghans themselves can be the front lines against the Taliban and the al-Qaida extremists.
QUESTION: For these purposes, do you have to support President Karzai?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, he is the elected president, and I think once he decided to stand for the second round, he legitimized the outcome of the election. Dr. Abdullah decided not to pursue, which has happened in other places. It’s happened in my own country, when somebody looks at a runoff election and doesn’t think they have much of a chance and don’t feel like it’s worth going through it.
So there’s no doubt that he is the duly elected president of Afghanistan. But it shouldn’t be that he just holds the title in name only. He has to perform for his people. And he has to demonstrate a commitment to the wellbeing of the people of Afghanistan. I’m not underestimating the dangers he faces and the threats, as we saw with the terrible attack on the UN headquarters. This is a very difficult situation. But he has to show the leadership that we should expect from him.
QUESTION: You’re clearly unhappy with his efforts to fight corruption. How do you want to put more pressure on that, and how do you want to force him to be more tough on this? He probably has to fight against his own brother?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think that there are several aspects to this. One, we need a formalized mechanism to be investigating corruption inside Afghanistan that is an independent entity that is independent of the existing power structure. We also have to be more careful about what we – namely the West, NATO, other donors – do, because a lot of the corruption is fueled by the amount of money we put in and don’t have appropriate measures of accountability ourselves. And we have to be tougher.
But at the end of the day, what we need to do is measure results on the ground. We need to set some standards about where money should be going and what the results should be, and monitor those and hold the people in government accountable.
QUESTION: Madame Secretary, your real concern – the real concern for Western security is not Afghanistan alone anymore, but a nuclear-armed Pakistan, as you very well know. And you yourself recently voiced doubts. You said you – in your recent in Pakistan, it’s hard to believe, and I quote you, that members of the Pakistani Government did not know the hiding places of al-Qaida and could not get at them if they really wanted to. What did you mean by that?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, there are two issues here. On the one hand, the nuclear arsenal that Pakistan has, I believe is secure. I think that the government and the military have taken adequate steps to protect that. On the other hand, the safe haven that al-Qaida has found in Pakistan is very troubling. They are still actively engaged with the elements of the Pakistani Taliban that are threatening the state of Pakistan.
And it was only recently that Pakistan, through its civilian leadership and its military leadership, actually made the decision that this was a threat to them. We had been saying it was. Others had been telling them the same. But they are now committed to going after those who have attacked their army headquarters, intelligence, the Islamic University in Islamabad, so many targets that really exemplify the authority of the state and the culture of society.
So I think that my point really was to say, look, you have concerns about what we do – we, the United States, and the West. Well, we have concerns about what you do. And it is a very high priority for my government to capture or kill the al-Qaida leadership, and we need more help from you in order to be able to achieve that.
QUESTION: You’re referring to the intelligence people in Pakistan when you make this claim that they should know when everybody knows that in Qatar, Mullah Omar is having his headquarters, or at least there are some people around him who – was that – are you still – do you still fear that intelligence services in Pakistan are not reliable?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Not at the highest levels. I am convinced that at the highest levels, we have a good working relationship. But we have tens of thousands of people in our government in sensitive positions. Every so often, we uncover somebody who’s a traitor. We uncover somebody who is selling classified information or giving it to an agency of another country. So I know how governments work, and I know that it takes constant vigilance to try to root out those who might not share the values or the program of the government. And there are thousands of people in that government, and I would like to see a real effort made on the part of the top leadership to make sure that no one down the ranks is doing anything to give any kind of support or cover-up to the al-Qaida leadership.
QUESTION: Tehran is obviously not willing to accept the newest proposals. How long, how – when is your patience ending for (inaudible) Iran?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, we don’t have a formal response from Iran yet. Our --
QUESTION: They’re trying to renegotiate again, again.
SECRETARY CLINTON: And we – yeah, we don’t intend to do that. I mean, we’ve been willing to give them more time to work through their internal political debate, because we know there is a lot of turmoil in the Iranian political system coming after the election. But our patience is not unlimited. We continue to urge them to show good faith, as they had said they would adopt this agreement in principle. It would provide an opening for us to discuss not just the nuclear program, but other matters as well, and we still are hopeful that they will decide to accept it.
QUESTION: Why don’t you take the military option off the table? Nobody is believing in it anymore anyway.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Because we don’t take any options off the table. I don’t think that strategically, it is smart to begin cutting your options when the other side doesn’t move at all. Let’s see some good faith from Iran, let’s see some action on their part. President Obama has reached out to them, both publicly and privately. We have tried to change the discussion so that they could participate with us, we could have a diplomatic engagement. But that’s not a one-way street, and we have to see some reciprocity coming back from Iran.
QUESTION: Israel, one question I have to ask about Israel: Are you capitulating in front of the hardliners? Some people said Obama, your president, was asking for a total freeze. When you were in Israel, you were praising the Netanyahu government for much less.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think it has to be seen in context. There’s never been a settlement freeze prior to any negotiations conducted by anyone – any Israeli government, any Palestinian government, facilitated by any American government. In negotiations, you often ask for a maximalist position, which is what we would prefer. We are very much in favor of ending settlement activity of all kinds.
The Israeli Government made a fair point, which is that in their legal system, they’ve already permitted the start of construction on certain units, but they were willing to do something no Israeli government had ever done, which was to say no new settlement activity, period. Now, ultimately, this can all be taken care of once a state’s borders are determined. Then Israel does whatever it wants to do on its side of the border, and the Palestinians do whatever they want to do. But it was a positive step, and I have praised the Palestinians for positive steps they’ve taken on security, which the Israelis did not think was enough.
So in a situation like this, I think it’s important to make clear your position. Our position is settlement activity is not legitimate. But to go ahead and say it’s a positive step to end new settlement activity, something that has never been done, and to then get into negotiations so that we can discuss what the borders of a new state would be – and that would moot all of this discussion of settlements.
QUESTION: So this was not a change in policy, but in tone?
SECRETARY CLINTON: It was absolutely not a change in policy. There was no change in policy at all. And it is something, of course, that is disappointing to the Arabs and the Palestinians because they would like to see a total end. But it would be very difficult to go and use the Israeli army, or the legal process of Israel, to go around to people who have already been given this permit, short of a final settlement on borders, and tell them to stop construction.
So from the Israeli perspective, they thought it was a big concession. From the Palestinian perspective, it was not enough. We don’t think it’s enough. It doesn’t correspond with what we want to see eventually. But I think it’s only fair to say that it went further than anyone has before.
QUESTION: Thank you. It’s enough for starting negotiations?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, we think it is, but we’re the facilitator. The parties have to get into the negotiation. And I was very pleased when I was in Egypt last week that the Egyptians said they would be more than happy to host the Israelis and the Palestinians. But of course now, there are a lot of other issues that are at work. (Laughter.)
QUESTION: Yes. Perfect, perfect.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you.
Interview With Dr. Sebastian Hesse-Kastein of MDR Radio
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Hotel Adlon
Berlin, Germany
November 9, 2009
QUESTION: Madame Secretary, do you still remember when you heard for the first time that the wall had come down?
SECRETARY CLINTON: I do. I was living in Arkansas with my husband and my daughter. He was the governor of Arkansas at the time. And it seems like a very long time ago, because televisions were much smaller, they were in boxes, not in flat screens hung on walls. And we were just captivated because both Bill and I had been interested in international relations, and of course, as children of the Cold War we had followed the history of the Berlin airlift and President Kennedy’s visit and so many of the events, including the building of that wall. So it was an extraordinary moment. And Tom Brokaw, who was a famous TV anchor, was in Berlin and reporting, and memorably said, “The war is over, the wall is down.” It was an extraordinary moment, and we were just glued to our television sets.
QUESTION: Did you think back then this is the beginning of a new era?
SECRETARY CLINTON: I have to be honest; back then I didn’t know what it meant. I thought it meant the unraveling of the Soviet Union. But would there be rearguard actions? Would people break up? Would East – the Eastern part of Germany become their own state? I didn’t know any of that. But the exhilaration of the freedom and the people, particularly the young people who were literally tearing down the wall with picks and hammers and bare hands, said so much about the yearning that people have to be free and to make their own decisions. And I was very pleased to watch the smart leadership that Germany had during that time.
And then when Bill became president, I got to know Chancellor Helmut Kohl. We talked often about his commitment to reunifying Germany. And yet I still don’t think I could have predicted you’d have a reunified Germany in a unified Europe, with not only a unified Germany but the other countries of Central and Eastern Europe being part of the EU and part of NATO. It’s remarkable what has happened in a short period of time.
QUESTION: In what way has the world changed since then? Is it a safer place now or a better place?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, in many ways it’s better. It is certainly better in Europe. The peace in Europe, the social contract that has been developed, is a model. The fact that countries that warred against each other twice in the last century are now working together, partners and allies, is a great accomplishment. It was a bipolar world. The Cold War seemed very simple in retrospect. You had the Soviet Union and the West that were, in a sense, facing off right here in Berlin and elsewhere in the world.
So there is not that sense of certainty and clear rivalry now. It’s much more diffuse. It is non-state actors like the terrorists as well as rogue states. So the complexity is greater, the danger a different kind of danger. We don’t face the threat of nuclear annihilation as we did then, but we have to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons so we never face that again.
QUESTION: As you probably know, a vast majority in this country is for pulling out the troops out of Afghanistan, the German troops, as soon as possible. This year the mandate has to be renewed in the German Bundestag. What is your message to the decision makers why should the German army stay?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, of course, this is a decision for the German Government and the German people, and I respect that. So let me talk about America. The President has had us going through a very thoughtful, deliberative process, asking all the hard questions. We didn’t want to accept any assumptions. We don’t believe that enough progress was made in the last eight years under the prior administration. But at the same time, we do think that we have to prevent Afghanistan from becoming, once again, a haven for terrorists who will use it to attack the United States, Germany, other friends and allies and interests around the world.
How do we best approach that? That’s what we are studying and working on now. We would hope to have Germany as an active partner, because we really do believe it goes right to our security interests. This is not about whether Afghanistan makes economic or social progress. We think that would be important. We would like to see it happen. But that’s not why American troops are there. American troops are there because we face a threat, and the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, the syndicate of terrorists headed by al-Qaida, including elements of the Taliban, are plotting against us all the time. They are opportunistic. They will seek the opportunity to do harm to the German people, the American people, the British, the French, those who represent the kind of modernity and values that they stand against.
So I hope that whatever President Obama ends up deciding, that we can make a case to the American people, and to Europe and others, that we’ve got to continue to stand with each other.
QUESTION: Is there any idea out there what the new strategy is going to be like?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, we’re getting close. I obviously can’t preempt the President to talk about his decision. But it will be based on a very careful assessment of what is in the security interests of the United States and our allies around the world.
QUESTION: What can Germany contribute?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, Germany has already contributed. Germany has contributed not only troops and had losses and sacrifices among those troops, Germany has contributed civilian assistance and financial assistance. We have a big task to accelerate the training of the Afghan security forces. Germany has expertise and experience doing that. So there will be a number of ways that Germany can participate. But of course, ultimately, it is up to the German people.
QUESTION: Our new Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle has announced in D.C. last week that he wants to support President Obama’s disarmament initiative, not only by words but by acting as well. How could help – what kind of help would you need or would you like Germany to add?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think that there is a great commitment by President Obama to try to stem nuclear proliferation. And we can certainly use Germany’s help in preventing nuclear materials around the world from falling into the wrong hands. The United States is negotiating a reduction in its nuclear arsenal with Russia. We want to have NATO carefully study all the different aspects of the nuclear posture that we have through NATO. I think we want to demonstrate good faith, but we also have to be careful and thoughtful about how we proceed. And that’s something we’ll be discussing not only with Germany, but with other of our partners in NATO.
QUESTION: I wonder if the disarmament ideas our new government has is disarming another country as well, like getting rid of nuclear weapons. Can you tell us when the U.S. might pull out its nuclear bombs out of Germany?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I think that has to be considered in the context of NATO strategy. But I also think we have to be very careful about how we evaluate the different threats, the need for deterrents. So it’s a complicated issue. And I think NATO is the appropriate forum to consider all of the ramifications, because we have obligations to states further east. We have obligations to states in the Balkans and further south. So we have to bring everyone’s opinion to the table as we consider what to do.
QUESTION: Let’s talk about climate change.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Mm-hmm.
QUESTION: What will the U.S. bring to Copenhagen to the UN summit there?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, the United States will bring a climate change bill based on a cap-and-trade model that was passed by our House of Representatives, a very vigorous effort going on in our Senate that we think will bear some fruit. But more importantly and more immediately, the Obama Administration has taken a number of steps through regulation to limit car emissions, utility plant emissions. We put $89 billion into clean energy technology. So we are doing a lot, in just eight months after the prior administration denied the problem for eight years.
But I think it’s very important for us to rise to the challenge, and that developed countries like Germany and the United States have responsibilities, but so do the developing countries like China and India. And we have to expect more from all of us.
QUESTION: Madame Secretary, thank you very much for this interview.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you very much. I’ve enjoyed being with you.
